dekay.org

Right at this moment there is a very interesting discussion over at Tango-L (the international tango discussion mailing list), mainly concerning different aspects of men and women and their developments in tango. If one can summarize the thread at all, since every member of Tango-L has at least two different agnedas, or so it seems at most times.

Here are some excerpts, feel free to read the whole thread over here.

Be careful, this post is quite long

It all started a couple days ago with

Igor Polk’s question:

I was told that many men trying tango drop it because they think “tango is too feminine”. Some of my friends actually think that tango is very masculine, strong. I believe these men who dropped could be the best tango dancers and WE NEED GOOD MEN IN TANGO ! DESPERATELLY !!!! Please, help to find ways to uncover masculine part of tango to potential great leaders !

There were many replies, but I am just quoting passages which I find very fascinating, so here it goes:

I also highlighted some passages which I feel are important!

Darlene Robertson’s reply “Igor’s Question: a woman’s perspective”

Igor, this is the harsh reality of our societal existence: to “make tango more attractive to men” we just need to keep as many attractive females around. BTW, it wouldn’t do us any harm to have really, hot, young, gorgeous men around, too, right ladies?

As for men that aren’t masculine enough… yup. This is tricky. I don’t like to dance with effeminate men that are spaghetti noodles. You guys know what I mean because I hear you men tell me about so-n-so women, etc. doing that exact same thing. I’ve worked with a few of my gay friends (from when I modeled, etc. — not from dancing, okay?) to “butch” up their walk, etc. but they are just of the stubborn variety (like us all, duh!) that think someone should love them for who they are (how sophomoric, right?) — kidding. I think what women don’t want is a guy that thinks he’s straight that really is gay lurking (there’s that word again) in tango parlors. We want men that are men that are good dancers.

Bottom line: there’s no easy answer here.

…

Maybe patterns are easier for our beginning men so we need to remember to listen to our students to find out what they need. I wasn’t taught patterns until I started going to group lessons. Until then, all I did was dance.

Better dancers need to dance with beginners… both leaders and followers. Make people comfortable and feel welcome.

To which Tom Stermitz replied

Quick comment: his reply actually deserves a seperate blog post – more visibility – but in the flow of things it needs to fit here. But in my eyes Tom is exactly hitting the nail on the head. No more questions asked, he is da man. Really?

I define advanced tango as “simple things done well”, but that is also a definition of confident tango.

We’ve been throwing around the terms feminine and masculine, and those are useful but loaded terms. A more specific and easier to address issue is to address CONFIDENCE or lack thereof. Yes, tango requires masculine guys, but at the basic level it isn’t that these guys aren’t masculine. They feel tentative because they aren’t confident. Tango requires (the follower requires), that the man proposes an idea, a step a sequence of steps or whatever. This is daunting for the men at first, and the crux of the problem is confidence vs uncertainty.

…

In my experience, the single most important driver for retaining the guys is whether they feel confident. Secondly, the foundation for confidence is understanding the music. You can draw a big fat arrow:

MUSICALITY => CONFIDENCE => RETENTION => HAPPY WOMEN.

Teaching Musicality.

So, when I teach I am highly focused on showing the men where the beat is and where the musical phrasing is. Change the music, repeat and rinse. It takes repetition and time, as this is a strange foreign genre to most. Basically, if they don’t know the music, then they have to be shown exactly where it is, and how to make their movements relate to it.

Musicality is when your energy matches the musical energy, the surge at the beginning of the phrase, the suspension at the end, the flow and “wave” of the waltz, the staccatto of D’Arienzo, the walk of Di Sarli, the drama of Pugliese.

Confidence is when you just know what to do in your bones.

I’m sometimes accused of “just teaching walking” because I present tango steps or vocabulary more slowly than some teachers, but that is a misunderstanding because I’m teaching a MUSICAL way of walking, which some might call dancing.

It is no wonder that some dancers like alternative music because they can hear it, move to it be inspired by it. Watch a North American dance to blues or R&B. That is the “music of our people”; it makes sense to us, we can just feel what to do. In fact I use alternative precisely for this quality of creating confidence… “Hmmm, I guess I CAN dance”.

Teaching steps.

Steps? Steps don’t equal tango; steps are just the things you do once you know tango. This is perhaps why in Argentina you can start with the steps. Culturally, they already know tango, what is sounds like, looks like, feels like, so they just need to know what to do.

I know, you have teachers who present lots and lots of steps. This is so typical of new teachers and Intermediate dancers. Let me show you! This is an ocho, this is a volcada, this is a shoe shine, this is a whoop-de-do. They are teaching at the level they are learning, not the level where a beginner is learning.

Teaching lots of steps keeps the guys in a constant state of un-confidence and un-ability. It is deceptive, perhaps. They feel like they are learning, and maybe they keep taking classes always seeking the answer. But what is the question? CONFIDENCE, not stuff. These guys end up long-term intermediates randomly zig-zagging around the middle of the floor. I’ve tried to teach some of the musicality, and they just don’t get it because their brain is so full of stuff, that they can’t comprehend the essence.

Look at milongas or practicas in communities dominated by fancy tango (nuevo, fantasy, neo, non). You have lots of women, and not so many men.

A direct reply from Trini de Pittsburgh

The basic idea is to take away the fear of the man to move, especially the fear of stepping on the woman’s feet. As Tom pointed out, it’s about confidence.

First, in the modern dance studio I use we’re only allowed to use socks or barefoot. This rule had the unexpected benefit of taking away a lot of the fear of stepping on the woman’s feet. If he steps on her, he’s not going to hurt her. So he moves more confidently. It’s worked out so well, that we use “barefoot tango” a lot in our other facilities that allow dance shoes.

…

By this time, the seeds have sprouted and are growing. There are further exercises that I do as needs arise throughout the teaching program. However, I don’t talk about masculinity or feminimity or gender roles because my job isn’t to address their psychology on those issue. I don’t go into too much touchy-feely stuff either. What I am is simply practical. Cause and effect. If you want B to happen, then A must come first.

This approach works well for us, and I have a relatively good retention rate of men. I should, however, say that the market we reach tends to be people who are interested in dancing, anyway. I find it a waste of time and resources to just blanket the general public. And I’d rather spend my efforts on interested people rather than on half-hearted people.

I also agree with Tom about the importance of understanding musicality. But I don’t push it too much if the guy just isn’t getting it. Then I change tactics to help the man feel confident.

Another shout-in from Tom

I understand there is a problem, but disagree that it has to be a problem.

Argentine Tango seems so improvisational and flexible that you can’t find the structure. Specifically, the phrasing structure of Tango is 4+4=8. This is easy count and easy to match with simple steps. But when you have too many steps, you lose the musicality. That is why it is so hard to teach musicality to intermediate and advanced dancers.

The cool thing is: IT IS VERY EASY TO TEACH MUSICALITY TO BEGINNERS.

He said it all.

Russell Ranno in reply to Tom

Meanwhile, your main thesis is that if you retain the men the women will follow. But then you say: “Look at milongas or practicas in communities dominated by fancy tango (nuevo, fantasy, neo, non). You have lots of women, and not so many men.” So where have the women followed?

What I have found, in terms of retention, is that men like walking and rhythm work (as you say, to build confidence, etc.), but lots of women enjoy the movement possibilities in FIGURES, they will leave if they don’t get them. If you want a balanced community you have to feature a strong dose of both.

Followed by Ron from Illinois

I have also observed that women tend to be attracted more to instructors that teach figures and men flourish in a teaching environment that emphasizes simple vocabulary and musicality. However, age is also an important factor here. Young men (20s) generally prefer figures, with a premium placed on flashiness. They can be uninhibited in performing these figures poorly (off balance, poor partner connection, off music). By the time men have reached their 40s the balance tips in favor of fewer steps, better technique, better connection with partner and the music. My observation is that women tend to outgrow the fascination with figures at a older age than men. As women mature, they also appreciate tango more for its richness in musicality and depth of partner connection. Of course, individuals differ, to some degree based on their cultural background (I have found that Latin Americans, in particular, tend to develop an appreciation for musicality and partner connection at an earlier age.)

As far as retention goes, there is no one formula for success. The population you are teaching is inherently heterogeneous. As an instructor, you need to believe in what you are doing in training students. Emphasizing musicality, partner connection and navigation as the core of tango can hardly be criticized as a valid method of producing good dancers, men and women, young and old. As an instructor you need to make a choice whether quantity or quality is more important in adding new dancers to a community.

Conclusion?

None in sight. But, in times of these: Tango-L is a really good source for ideas and discussion. And it is equally good to hear that the struggles in tango are the same everywhere (maybe except for walhalla … err Buenos Aires).